From: Neil Jackson, Bath, 4th June, 2008
Another wonderful handful of jigsaw pieces that all seem to fit! Clearly Ron's information tallies well with John and Carolyn's in so many ways as to support pretty firmly the existance of 'John Vane' as 'Jack Vane', son of Sir Henry Vane-Tempest Bt. (1771-1813).
Our proof of existence for Jack is of course Edith's (Marchioness Londonderry) 1958 book about Frances Anne Emily Vane Tempest (3rd Marchioness Londonderry) where Frances herself is purported to have relayed the information about Jack and his being a natural illegitimate son of her father, the same Sir Henry Vane-Tempest Bt. (1771-1813).
I think we'd be hard pushed to find greater proof, though it would be nice to find some source interchangeably referring to 'John Vane' as 'Jack' somewhere! That would, to my mind, nail it shut! [But see article by John Gowar, newly-published on the website - Ed]
Moving on to Mary Ann Vane, I've read and re-read Carolyn's hypothesis for her existence, and it seems perfectly feasible to me, and I so want it to be true - but of course, we're lacking in one or two items that would pinpoint it.
Certainly, Frances Anne Taylor (née Vane) (sister of Sir Henry Vane-Tempest Bt. (1771-1813)) would seem a highly likely candidate for 'motherhood' of Mary Ann Vane, especially, given her looks and beauty and eventual choice of husband - all of which support, shall we say, a potential for her being a bit of a 'bon viveur' - but the tricky point is accepting that it was William 2nd Viscount Courtenay who was the natural father of Mary Ann. Especially given that Ron hasn't been able to turn anything up that suggests the Courtenays had any out-of-wedlock issue.
I suppose it is possible that an illicit liason took place between the 42-year-old widower Viscount and the undoubtedly beautiful 15-year-old Frances Anne Vane, but I feel sure that would have been considered pretty heinous, even in those times! However, clearly William was no stranger to the bedroom, with 13 daughters and a son to his credit, and
having lost his wife Frances Clack on 25-Mar-1782, it IS possible that by May/June 1783 he was getting 'restless' (this being the date at which conception of Mary Ann would have had to occur, in order for her to be born in Feb 1784).
However, without proof, it's possibly a bit tenous. That's not to say that it DIDN'T happen that way, but I feel that to be sure, we'd need to know a bit more about the five pedigrees and secondary sources to which Carolyn refers, which say "that a child named Mary was born/baptized at Powderham on February 26, 1784 to William 2nd Viscount Courtenay."
I found a link for Powderham castle, but no obvious mention of any 'dalliances' by William 2nd Viscount: www.powderham.co.uk/history-conservation-Powderham.htm
and there's also some history of the Viscountcy of Courtenay on Genuki which fills in a few dates and times for William's life and children:
www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/History/Barons/viscounts2.html (about halfway down the page the Courtenay stuff starts).
Linking William 2nd Viscount Courtenay to Mary Ann Vane at all, would necessarily be the first step. Once we could do that successfully, the reasons for her having the surname Vane and not Courtenay could perhaps be established, and thus a linkage with Frances Anne Vane (Taylor) might be possible to pinpoint.
What do we think? It would be nice, I feel, for Carolyn to reap the reward of filling in this final blank, given the work she's done that has ultimately proved so helpful in supporting our quest for John Vane!
So, Carolyn - do you have any leads on those aforementioned sources that we might be able to read up on?
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From Carolyn Grant, Vancouver Island, BC, Canada - 9th June, 2008
I am delighted with the addition of Mr. Ron Tempest to our discussions. He is now the new kid on the block! His family expertise certainly will add a welcome dimension to the dialogue.
I, like John, was familiar with most of the details regarding the Vane-Tempest background through the book Frances Anne...Lady Londonderry and H. Montgomery Hyde's book, The Londonderry's, a Family Portrait and various Burke's Peerage and Landed Gentry accounts, but I was not aware of the earlier connection of Michael Angelo Taylor's ancestor being connected to the Tempest family. I wonder if the lady was the same Olivia with the beautiful blonde tresses whose likeness was captured in a stunning stained glass window that graces a church... perhaps somewhere in Durham? A few years ago I found it on the internet but now it eludes me.
I would imagine the real truth regarding the birth mother of my ancestor Mary Ann Vane will also continue to elude me as well. If the girl was very young her parents may have taken the baby away and told her that the baby died. That way she would not try to look for the baby thereby closing that chapter in her book of life. That is why I wanted to look for Frances Anne Taylor's will to make sure she didn't make any reference for a bequest to her "natural" daughter.
Perhaps that is part of the reason she obviously loved her brother's illegitimate son so much. Perhaps, that is why she fought the marriage of her niece Frances Anne Emily to Charles Stewart, a much "older man", a man of little means compared to the income of his future wife. To Mrs. Taylor, Stewart was a gambler, drinker and womanizer. She took the matter to the Higher Courts but she could not convince the court that he was unsuitable as a husband for the young Frances Anne.
In response to Neil's suggestions for the need to support my proposed theory I have attached a copy of the sources where I do indeed claim that William 2nd Viscount Courtenay did have a child named Mary born/baptized in 1784, two years after the death of his wife. I have also attached an outline of my argument to support the theory that Mary Ann Vane and "Mary" fifteenth child of William 2nd Viscount Courtenay were one and the same person.
Regarding my research there is another avenue left to explore and that is the issue of a "trust agreement" set up to look after the child Mary. During this era, an illegitimate child would not often be named in the will of the father...and Mary wasn't, but Lord Courtenay may have set up a trust to look after her. One set of papers would have likely been at Powderham Castle the other would have been with the family lawyer, a trustee of the estate who I believe was also a son in-law.
For your interest I am passing along a copy of picture of Michael Angelo Taylor that Lord Londonderry passed along to me.
Taylor was sometimes referred to as the father of the House of Commons. As has been pointed out earlier at one point in his career, the Rev. John Vane was the Chaplain for the House of Commons.
Perhaps Michael Angelo Taylor had a hand in that appointment ...or if it occurred later in his career Rev. Vane's life long association with M.A. Taylor, coupled with being the sole heir of Frances Ann Taylor would have helped. With the man's own personal experience, talents and good looks I am sure he would not have had any trouble securing that position.
I look forward to our next exchange.
... for the time being .... [Ed]
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