http://www.somerset.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=
Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=0&dsqSearch=(RefNo='DD\BR\lch/14')

These deeds are the ones which refer to Rev. John Vane as "natural son of 1st Duke of Cleveland", and which formed my initial 'link' between Rev John Vane and the Cleveland Vanes (who were my original area of study).

Clearly, the deed's reference to John as a 'natural son' is probably a mistake, but if Wm Harry Vane was, as now looks likely, his godfather, then it is highly likely that after the "early death of Sir Henry Vane-Tempest in August 1813" (which Carolyn refers to in her email), and given the rift between 'Jack' and Sir Henry Vane-Tempest's wife Anne
Catharine MacDonnell (who was clearly not Jack's mother), then who else would logically look out for Jack, but his godparent, Wm Harry Vane, 1st Duke Cleveland?

Although Jack would have been 21 at the time of the death of his father, it's quite possible he may have had difficulty obtaining a living without help. The Duke survived until 1842 (at which time John was 50 and well-established... but quite possibly, largely due to help from the Duke (whom I believe we found evidence to the effect that he 'doted on him', but I can't place this at the moment).

It's all making pretty good sense to me now! :)

In essence, if our suppositions about 'Jack' being Rev John Vane (which rates quite well, imho) and Carolyn's belief that Mary Ann Vane was the (albeit illegitimate) daughter of Frances Anne Vane Taylor (whom I cannot find on peerage.com as a daughter of Sir Henry Vane and Frances Tempest/, by the way, but that's not entirely definitive), then that would make Carolyn's ancester Mary Ann Vane and 'our Rev John Vane' proper first cousins, yes?

Perhaps we'll yet find (a) a father for Mary Ann Vane (which would shed some more light for Carolyn) and (b) a mother for Jack/John Vane which would complete our investigation totally, I think, don't you?

Incidentally, the blood relationship between William Harry Vane (1st Duke Cleveland) and 'Jack' John Vane, aside from being godfather/godson, would also have been 'Fourth Cousins once removed' as far as I can tell.

Here's the sequence:

From 'Jack' John Vane, presumed father Sir Harry Vane-Tempest 2nd Baronet,

grandfather Sir Henry Vane
gt-grandfather George Vane
gt-gt-grandfather unknown Vane
gt-gt-gt-grandfather Sir Henry Vane the Elder

meanwhile from William Harry Vane (1st Duke),

father Henry Vane
grandfather Henry Vane
gt-grandfather Gilbert Vane
gt-gt-grandfather Christopher Vane
gt-gt-gt-grandfather Sir Henry Vane the Younger (executed)
gt-gt-gt-gt-grandfather Sir Henry Vane the Elder

The only curious thing is that Wm Harry Vane is technically one generation YOUNGER than Jack/John's generation, yet is 26 years older and becomes the latter's godfather! Strange, but perfectly feasible.

Regards to all - thanks all for such interesting insights!
                                                         ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
FROM John Gowar, Redhill, 17th May, 2008

Dear Carolyn,

What a delight to receive your forwarded message.

I'm in entire agreement with everything you say about John Vane, but had picked up no hint that both of the children of the irascible Rev Sir Henry Vane had had illegitimate children in their youth. Perhaps that accounts for his bad temper!

I found the Rev John Vane such an interesting man that some two years or so ago I embarked on writing a biography of him. It led me into so many fascinating areas of early nineteenth century English society that I rather got bogged down last year and it's been (as they say) on the back-burner for a while as I've become distracted by other matters. By coincidence, however, only in the last few days, I've been in correspondence with the compiler of the Church of England Clergy Database trying to persuade her to let me correct the entry for John Vane, which at present perpetuates the error of his parentage. Perhaps we can combine forces on this?

Thank you for including the pictures. Do you know where the Hoppner of Frances Anne Taylor is? I've not so far plucked up the courage to write to ask the current Marquess! I did wonder whether there were other family portraits tucked away somewhere.

Like you with your ancestor, I've been unable to find John Vane's mother or god-parents, despite searching the parish records in Durham. Or indeed his precise birth or baptism date. I do have a mass of other information about him, but I guess that is only of peripheral interest to you. My suspicion is that when Sir H V-T died, his widow never paid John the £5000 he had been left in her husband's will. And this matter was only settled by the younger Frances Anne after her marriage. Do you have any documentation that would corroborate this?

Rather more than a year ago, I went to the Belfast Record Office and found that they would not allow the third marchioness's manuscript notes (used for Edith, Lady Londonderry's book) to be released for public use. And the microfilm copy of the notes was in very poor condition. I mean to go back with more time to spend to see if there are any further details about John not mentioned by Lady Londonderry. I also mean to go back to Durham to read through Rev Sir H Vane's correspondence that is kept there. But I doubt it will reveal anything of his daughter's transgression.

I hope your message will spur me into resuming the JV biography. If you are interested in a talk I gave last year to a local history group on my quest for JV, I'll be happy to send you the back-up presentation. In the mean time, the very best wishes for your quest!

With kind regards,
John
                                                          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
FROM John Gowar, Redhill, 17th May, 2008

Dear Neil,

Many thanks for this. I think JV and the 1st Duke of Cleveland were fifth cousins. Please see attachment:.

By the way, the Somerset Record Office has altered access to its on-line catalogue, so your link may not work.

As you'll see from my message to Carolyn, I have to get back to some leg-work if the John Vane project is to resume!

With best wishes,

John
                                                           ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
From Carolyn Grant, Vancouver Island, BC, Canada - 15th May, 2008

Dear Neil,

Thank you for the summary. I do feel badly, as you had all been having so much fun with the mystery and the speculation. There is nothing like a great genealogical mystery.

Just a few points.

If you check in Burke's Peerage under Londonderry you will find that it begins with the Tempest lineage."Frances Tempest, m3 March, 1768, Rev. Sir Henry Vane, 1st Baronet of Long Newton, co. Durham, Preb. of Durham Cathedral, LL.D Camb., yr son of George Vane, of Long Newton who d.25, July, 1750(and brother of Lionel Vane, of Long Newton, who d. unm. 20 Feb. 1793).

Sir d.7 June 1794. She d. 19 Jan. 1796, leaving a son and dau..," (the said Frances Anne Vane Taylor)

There are many sources that have the lineage of the descendants of the Vanes this info was on the stirnet.com website under Vane 1 the lineage is as follows: For Sir Henry Vane-Tempest you overlooked one generation they match up then.

1) Sir Henry Vane the Elder,

2) 2) 2nd son Sir George Vane bap. 10.05.1618, buried 01.05.1679 m. Elizabeth
          Maddison dau. of Sir Lionel Maddison (2 sons)

3) 1) Lionel Vane of Long Newton m. Catherine Fletcher dau of Sir George Fletcher,
            2nd. Bart)

4) 1)George Vane of Long Newton (d. 25.07.1750) m. Anne Machon dau of
                William Machon of Durham

5) 1) Rev. Henry Vane, 1st Bart. of Long Newton 07,06, 1794, Prebendary of
                Durham Cathedral m. Frances Tempest, dau of John Tempest of Sherburn.

6) (1) Sir Henry Vane-Tempest, 2nd Bart of Long Newton (b. 25.01.1865) m.
                   (25.04.1799) Anne Catherine MacDonnell, Countess of Antrim.

7) 1) Frances Anne Emily Vane-Tempest (d.20.01. 1865)
                 (2) Frances Anne Vane-Tempest b. 1769. (I haven't seen her
                                name written anywhere else with the Tempest added on) m.       
                                Michael Angelo Taylor (MP) (his father was the famous architect
                                 Sir Robert Taylor, perhaps by naming him Michael Angelo the
                                 father had high hopes that he would follow in his footsteps.

Yes, it would make the Rev. John Vane and Mary Ann Vane cousins if Frances Anne Vane Taylor was proved to be her mother. If she was her mother I would imagine that Frances Anne's parents did everything they could to protect the news of an illegitimate pregnancy from reaching the public forum.

There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that her father was William 2nd Viscount Courtenay as five secondary documents do say he had a fifteen child Mary born/ baptized February 26, 1784 two years after the death of his wife.

Mary Ann's herself made the claim that she was his "natural" daughter. The next step for me has been to try to determine the age of Mary Ann Vane to make the link with the birth dates in England. Unfortunately as she was in the wilds of Labrador for most of the remainder of her life it was the missionaries who recorded events of births, and deaths. The only census was in 1847-8 (housed in Paris France) and it shows her name as Marianne Chevalier and her son Phillipe David Chevalier, but not one of the documents

I have been able to secure states her age. The five secondary pedigrees, one of which is on the Powderham Castle data base claims her existence. So an original document must have existed at one time. Clearly the original baptism record has been lost or destroyed accidently. On the grounds of Powderham Castle there is the Powderham Parish Church, St. Clements. In those Parish records I thought I would find the record of her baptism, but coincidently on February 26, 1784 William 2nd Viscount buried his sister the Hon. Mary Courtenay. But there is not any recording of a baptism taking
place that included the name Mary Ann Vane or Courtenay. But then I cannot imagine him arranging the baptism of his illegitimate child at the same time as he was burying his sister. My belief is that while the rector was there that day they carried out the baptism of the baby in the private chapel of the castle. I believed Lord Courtenay named the baby after his dead sister Mary and the name Ann possibly came from the child's mother.

I have not discovered anything that would suggest that William Harry, 5th, Baron Barnard, 3rd Earl of Darlington, and 1st Duke of Cleveland was involved on an ongoing basis with the Rev. John Vane. You would know more about that than I. Has anyone checked the Duke's will? From what was said in the Londonderry book it seems that it was Frances Anne Taylor and her husband who were very close to the lad and if you read their wills where he is both a trustee and an heir you have to come to the conclusion that they were deeply involved with him. They died in 1834 and 1835. He would have been quite nicely set up after their demise. That seems evident by the
number of servants. Did he ever marry. He was a very good looking man, as
was his father before him.

Thank you one and all it has been fun and please do keep your eyes open for any further clues as to the identity of the mother of Mary Ann Vane and yes, we must focus on finding a mother for "Jack" Vane. But I suspect that will be very difficult to do. Has anyone ever checked the parish records of Long Newton or the surrounding areas of Durham? I am surprised that John he was able to use his father's name and not the name of the mother which was more common in that period. Maybe the mother was not the daughter of the local baker or weaver, but instead the daughter of an aristocrat who did not want his daughter's name given to her illegitimate child. No doubt his name John was given to him in memory of his great grandfather John Tempest whose fortune passed to his father.

Happy Hunting,
Carolyn Grant
                                                        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~